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Post by mapender on May 22, 2011 23:46:04 GMT -5
Anybody ever seen this band? Anybody ever heard of this band?
About a year ago I realized that I couldn't name a single female artist or female-dominated band that I truly loved. For some strange reason, pretty much all of my favorite artists or bands consist of men old enough to be my father or even grandfather in some cases. I guess a lot of that has to do with the stuff I was raised on, but even when I started seeking out my own music as I became a teenager, I just ended up liking different artists that I wasn't raised on but that still fit into that same demographic. Anyway, since I realized this, I have made a concerted effort to explore more "age appropriate" artists and more female artists.
I had been hearing great things about this band for quite some time from friends who were more musically educated than I am, but I had resisted checking them out. People describe them as The Rolling Stones fronted by Grace Slick and while I know very little about Slick or Jefferson Airplane, I'd say that is a pretty good comparison. They aren't doing anything new, but if you like "good ol' rock and roll," I suggest you check them out.
Here are two videos I recommend:
Cover of "Paint it Black." I might even like this version better than the original and I am a Stones fan. I guess the biggest negative to GPN is that I tend to be more blown away by their covers than their original material which is still good.
"Paris" is probably their most popular song though not my favorite.
If you are still interested, here is a cover of Otis Redding's "Pain in My Heart" which I also love.
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Post by duckbiter on May 24, 2011 7:42:43 GMT -5
THE CORRS sprang to mind immediately. They were a hugely gifted Irish family who had massive worldwide success (except in N. America).
duckbiter
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Post by mapender on May 24, 2011 21:07:51 GMT -5
Interesting, I definitely haven't heard of them, but they are good. I am not somebody who is normally obsessed w/ a person's voice (hey, I love Springsteen), but I do love her voice a lot. I find it interesting when artists/bands are massive either here or over there and can't break through in the other place for some reason. Maybe Robbie Williams being the classic example. I could be wrong, but the impression I get is that he was about as big as you can get over in Europe. To me he is a one hit wonder who did that "Millennium" song. I don't think I even have any idea what he looks like. The Arctic Monkeys are big enough to headline Glastonbury, but I saw them for about $15 in a club that barely holds 500 people about a year and a half ago (although they are still really young). Oasis is another band that a lot of people seem to see as the second-coming, but even though somebody told me that I would surely at least know "Wonderwall" I definitely didn't know that song until I actively sought it out. I am sure there are just as many examples going the other way. I know that when The Dave Matthews Band was opening for Springsteen at The Hard Rock Calling festival in 2009, a lot of British fans had no idea who they were and they are about as big as you can get in the U.S., especially considering they don't follow a lot of the mainstream ways of promoting their music. I am pretty sure they drew over 100,000 for a concert in Central Park. Of course, I also find the fact that Springsteen is perhaps even more revered in places like Spain, Italy, and the Scandinavian countries where English isn't even their first language since people aren't Springsteen fans b/c of his "interesting" musical arrangements, or "killer" guitar skills, but rather it is almost always about the lyrics. I could never imagine that happening over here. Also, like all Americans, I find the rest of the world's fascinating with soccer/football perplexing I even spend the summer of 2006 in Berlin during the World Cup. I had a great time watching the games and going to all the events, but I can't say that it furthered my appreciation for the sport... lol. Totally took this off topic, but oh well. It was my topic to begin with
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Post by duckbiter on May 25, 2011 7:20:39 GMT -5
We have similar tastes in music, perhaps not the same individual artists, but rather the way they appear in performance. You like going to gigs whereas I dislike travel, so I only watch recorded music. For which YouTube is a goldmine. I almost always prefer a recording of a live performance to the studio vid. The more mistakes and wrong notes the better. Shows it's authentic.
Where we differ fundamentally is in what we regard as "success". You probably represent mainstream American belief (no offence), whereas although I reflect the European perspective, I am more extreme than the majority. For example, hearing The Dave Mathews Band for the first time, it's obvious they are a classy talented band. You puzzle (I think) over why the are unknown outside of America. My answer would be that perhaps they don't care. They are not looking for international success, why should they?
The Arctic Monkeys. You paid too much to see them. They played in my local pub - free admission! But there's no contradiction here with headlining at Glastonbury. Perhaps they prefer small gigs. I know I should. They're just NOT AMBITIOUS (= LOSER in USA).
Eva Cassidy, my favourite singer/player, is an example of this phenomenon in reverse. Virtually unknown in her native USA, she is loved with genuine passion in Europe. And a less ambitious artist would be hard to name.
Some personal background. Early teens - The Beatles and some great camp followers. Then in my first proper job, I used to drive out to an empty factory belonging to my mega-rich corporate employer and play BOB DYLAN cassette tapes all day long in my hideaway. Unsurprisingly my contract was not renewed. Do I regret it? HELL NO!
Then there's the bands which have mixed nation members. I should love to hear what your take is on Fleetwood Mac. Mick Fleetwood being the only non American in the band when they were at their peak.
This video btw is at the top of the list of my Desert Island Discs. And there's quite a story about what was going on in this actual performance. If you're sufficiently interested, scroll back through the comments 8 months. Here's what's happening
"during Lindsey's solo, Stevie plots with Chris to change the chorus lines
Stevie pirouettes to remind Chris, then gives her the nod
you can hear the result at 2.32, and Stevie eyeballs Lindsey looking for a reaction
Lindsey McKool never falters, and the band plays on ..."
Springsteen's music is virtually unknown to me . But trusting your judgement I shall keep it in mind for when I'm in the right mood.
ENGLISH For us native English speakers, I think that what in the first place looks like a happy advantage, is really something of a mixed blessing. English is the Lingua Franca of science, academia etc, etc. So why should we bother to learn other languages? If I try to answer this, I'll be here all day. There are so many reasons.
As for football (soccer), it's a fact that boys, outside of N.America, play footy from the age of 2. As a GURL you couldn't possibly understand it. GET REAL MEREDITH!
PS no offence again, I know that English humour and irony in general are not understood by Americans.
duckbiter
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Post by mapender on May 25, 2011 15:15:46 GMT -5
Where we differ fundamentally is in what we regard as "success". You probably represent mainstream American belief (no offence), whereas although I reflect the European perspective, I am more extreme than the majority. For example, hearing The Dave Mathews Band for the first time, it's obvious they are a classy talented band. You puzzle (I think) over why the are unknown outside of America. My answer would be that perhaps they don't care. They are not looking for international success, why should they? I don't know if puzzle over it is exactly the right way to put it since I am not a big DMB fan and don't know anything about their efforts/desires to expand internationally. More like just find it an interesting phenomenon when an artist/band is massive in one place and not the other since we at least speak the same language and with the way the internet connects the world these days. However, I do see where you are coming from in how we are different. Of course once they've conquered America, it would only stand to reason that the next challenge would be to take on the rest of the world. To me, that is a basic tenet of life and human nature. I think one of the hardest things for a band to do it so maintain the loyalty and interest of its old fans while continuing to bring in new ones. Overall, I definitely see ambition as a positive trait. A personal anecdote: a few years ago, my friend was dating this guy who was 30 and working part-time at a library. There is nothing wrong with working at a library (heck, I love books and reading), he made enough money to support himself, and was perfectly content w/ his life. However, my friend and I couldn't help always wondering why he was so "old" and not doing something that would lead to a "better" job. Whether that attitude be a reflection of my age (people seem to appreciate the little things in life a lot more as they get older), my personal upbringing (I was raised in a house where A=acceptable and B=better pack your bags b/c you aren't living here anymore), or a greater cultural pressure I don't know. Trust me, I know that being overly-ambitious is just as bed, if not worse than not ambitious at all, but overall I think of it as a positive trait. Then there's the bands which have mixed nation members. I should love to hear what your take is on Fleetwood Mac. Mick Fleetwood being the only non American in the band when they were at their peak. I honestly don't know much about them besides the "hits." I definitely be into checking them out if you had a recommendation or two. When a band's catalog is that extensive, it is hard to know where to start. Springsteen's music is virtually unknown to me . But trusting your judgement I shall keep it in mind for when I'm in the right mood. I don't know if you'd like him or not. If you are a big Dylan fan, I'd guess the answer is no, b/c most only see him as a "poor man's Dylan." I could write you a thesis on what all I love about him, but I'll try and be brief. Yeah, that didn't work at all. See new thread if you ever are interested. ENGLISH For us native English speakers, I think that what in the first place looks like a happy advantage, is really something of a mixed blessing. English is the Lingua Franca of science, academia etc, etc. So why should we bother to learn other languages? If I try to answer this, I'll be here all day. There are so many reasons It's true though. Especially here. It can be helpful to know Spanish, but there is no practical reason why you would ever need to know another language living in the U.S. Even though there is no "official language" here, we are definitely much worse than Europeans in being accepting of and helping out non-native speakers. As for football (soccer), it's a fact that boys, outside of N.America, play footy from the age of 2. As a GURL you couldn't possibly understand it. GET REAL MEREDITH! Don't be getting all sexist on me regarding sports I can talk the history and strategy of baseball with the best of them. Same with basketball to a lesser degree. I actually played soccer from the age of 5 until 12, but hated every minute of it (way too much running IMO... lol). It is a cultural thing though. Here, soccer is actually the most popular sport for younger kids, but as they get older they are channeled into baseball, basketball, or American football. I loved hearing all the "fights" about the game on the internet during the latest World Cup though. I find the different views of everybody fascinating. PS no offence again, I know that English humour and irony in general are not understood by Americans. First off, it takes a lot of offend me as long as you are being reasonable. Secondly, you are completely correct. I definitely don't get English humor the majority of the time.
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Post by duckbiter on May 28, 2011 10:34:56 GMT -5
Where we differ fundamentally is in what we regard as "success". You probably represent mainstream American belief (no offence), whereas although I reflect the European perspective, I am more extreme than the majority. For example, hearing The Dave Mathews Band for the first time, it's obvious they are a classy talented band. You puzzle (I think) over why the are unknown outside of America. My answer would be that perhaps they don't care. They are not looking for international success, why should they? I don't know if puzzle over it is exactly the right way to put it since I am not a big DMB fan and don't know anything about their efforts/desires to expand internationally. More like just find it an interesting phenomenon when an artist/band is massive in one place and not the other since we at least speak the same language and with the way the internet connects the world these days. However, I do see where you are coming from in how we are different. Of course once they've conquered America, it would only stand to reason that the next challenge would be to take on the rest of the world. To me, that is a basic tenet of life and human nature. I think one of the hardest things for a band to do it so maintain the loyalty and interest of its old fans while continuing to bring in new ones. Overall, I definitely see ambition as a positive trait. A personal anecdote: a few years ago, my friend was dating this guy who was 30 and working part-time at a library. There is nothing wrong with working at a library (heck, I love books and reading), he made enough money to support himself, and was perfectly content w/ his life. However, my friend and I couldn't help always wondering why he was so "old" and not doing something that would lead to a "better" job. Whether that attitude be a reflection of my age (people seem to appreciate the little things in life a lot more as they get older), my personal upbringing (I was raised in a house where A=acceptable and B=better pack your bags b/c you aren't living here anymore), or a greater cultural pressure I don't know. Trust me, I know that being overly-ambitious is just as bed, if not worse than not ambitious at all, but overall I think of it as a positive trait. I honestly don't know much about them besides the "hits." I definitely be into checking them out if you had a recommendation or two. When a band's catalog is that extensive, it is hard to know where to start. I don't know if you'd like him or not. If you are a big Dylan fan, I'd guess the answer is no, b/c most only see him as a "poor man's Dylan." I could write you a thesis on what all I love about him, but I'll try and be brief. Yeah, that didn't work at all. See new thread if you ever are interested. It's true though. Especially here. It can be helpful to know Spanish, but there is no practical reason why you would ever need to know another language living in the U.S. Even though there is no "official language" here, we are definitely much worse than Europeans in being accepting of and helping out non-native speakers. Don't be getting all sexist on me regarding sports I can talk the history and strategy of baseball with the best of them. Same with basketball to a lesser degree. I actually played soccer from the age of 5 until 12, but hated every minute of it (way too much running IMO... lol). It is a cultural thing though. Here, soccer is actually the most popular sport for younger kids, but as they get older they are channeled into baseball, basketball, or American football. I loved hearing all the "fights" about the game on the internet during the latest World Cup though. I find the different views of everybody fascinating. PS no offence again, I know that English humour and irony in general are not understood by Americans. First off, it takes a lot of offend me as long as you are being reasonable. Secondly, you are completely correct. I definitely don't get English humor the majority of the time. mapender "A=Acceptable and B=Beat it" sounds to me incredibly harsh and cruel. Did that not provoke an urge to rebel in your teens? Or is that yet to come? Please forgive my curiosity. And pushing my luck still further, would you follow this prescription with any putative children of your own? >>EXPLETIVE DELETED<< I expect to hear, but I promise I'm not being impertinent. FLEETWOOD MAC Rumours SPRINGSTEEN Plz help - I can't find the new thread! FOREIGN LANGUAGES Aha, something to disagree about at last! This btw is a hobby horse of mine so please feel free to ignore it if I become boring. "It can be helpful to know Spanish, but there is no practical reason why you would ever need to know another language living in the U.S." The USA's smug introspection is notorious. But its time is past. China is your debt holder, your grandchildren will need to learn Chinese. As the power of the USA wanes (these things just happen), a greater understanding and respect for other cultures will be required. And I PROMISE YOU that the best, really the the only way, to understand a different culture is to speak a little of their language. Americans are frequent travelers. You must know that, by just making the effort to learn a dozen or so words and phrases of a language, will make a world of a difference to the respect you receive. It is mere common courtesy. Daphne, a French member of our Forum, speaks good English, is about to start learning Spanish and Latin and is able to participate in a culture far removed from her own. Greyson has said that his "best" fans are French. LATIN!... WTF! (G-safe?). A dead language, I hear you say! WHY? WHY? I thought that, before learning it, but not afterwards. English and most Western European languages have Latin as their roots. It is the history of OUR language, alive and accessible. Abraham Maslow, an American psychologist, proposed a theory of human development consisting of a HIERARCHY of NEEDS. Once the lower needs were met, i.e. secure living location, food, sex etc. we come to the needs which are essentially HUMAN. Being an American he put SELF-ACTUALISATION at the top of the tree. Guess he meant the the dreadful cliche, "LIVING YO DREAM"! So I've changed that to ART (in its broadest sense) including MUSIC, humanity's greatest achievement. And LANGUAGE, not just a human achievement, but one we're pretty damn good at! (something wrong with the grammar here, sorry) duckbiter PS Meredith, how do you make those neat boxes around text you wish to reply to? Saves a lot of space!
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Post by arwelp on May 28, 2011 18:00:30 GMT -5
(Fleetwood Mac) I honestly don't know much about them besides the "hits." I definitely be into checking them out if you had a recommendation or two. When a band's catalog is that extensive, it is hard to know where to start. There are a number of different eras of Fleetwood Mac. The first era was Peter Green's time in the 1960s, when they produced one of my favourite instrumental tracks when I was in primary school, "Albatross" - Then in the mid 70s there was the era of the albums Rumors and Tusk, both of which are worth listening to, and in the 80s there was Tango in the Night. I definitely don't get English humor the majority of the time. May I present a few of my favourites? I'm a great fan of the late, great, Marty Feldman (gone nearly 30 years now, alas). Here's "The Beast at the Vets" , "Popping out to make the cocoa" , and "The loneliness of the long-distance golfer" . And of course, the "Four Yorkshiremen" sketch .
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Post by duckbiter on May 28, 2011 18:40:17 GMT -5
Arwel
Look mate, you're pissing against the wind. Take it from me NOBODY HERE will laugh at this shit except me, ROFL. I've tried, God knows I have, to educate the Yanks and Southerners in the subtleties of irony and English humour.
WITHOUT SUCCESS!
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Post by arwelp on May 29, 2011 7:48:27 GMT -5
Ah, but if we don't try to educate them, they'll never wise up!
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Post by mapender on May 29, 2011 20:16:27 GMT -5
mapender "A=Acceptable and B=Beat it" sounds to me incredibly harsh and cruel. Did that not provoke an urge to rebel in your teens? Or is that yet to come? Please forgive my curiosity. And pushing my luck still further, would you follow this prescription with any putative children of your own? >>EXPLETIVE DELETED<< I expect to hear, but I promise I'm not being impertinent. Well, first off I doubt my mom would have ever actually gone through with it. I did actually get a B in high school one semester and and she didn't react too badly. I am sure that if I had worked really hard and just didn't do well enough to get an A that would be one thing, but I was never a particularly dedicated student. Luckily for me, school has always been one of those things I could succeed in without much effort. Secondly, it did work. I did well, got into the college of my choice, and had the greatest four years. Also, just because I wanted to rebel, didn't mean that I did. I am about as straight-laced, "goody two shoes" as you can imagine somebody being at my age. I doubt I'd be as strict if I have kids. Probably not b/c I am just naturally much more easy going than my mom is. However, I know that nobody can really know what it is like to be a parent until you are one. FLEETWOOD MAC Rumours SPRINGSTEEN Plz help - I can't find the new thread! Ok, I've definitely heard about that album, but don't have a copy. I just got an iTuens gift card so I'll invest in that. I was working on posting the Springsteen thread and then my computer froze and I had to restart and lost it all. I will probably write it out and post it again just b/c it is something that I have never put into words before. This video kind of shows one of the many things I love about him. Here he is playing a song that he has played thousands of times before. The night before he had just played a 3 hour headlining set at Glastonbury, was obviously sick (his voice is worse than it normally is), and yet here he is pouring his heart and soul into every word he is shouting into the microphone. Of course, I think that is what we should expect if we are going to pay money to see somebody, but too often that isn't what you get. I have never seen Bruce just "going through the motions." The man loves what he does even after all these years and it is very obvious. Bruce is revered in NJ and yet lives as normal a life as could be possible. He is frequently seen at the local bars and clubs checking out bands. Sometimes hopping on stage and often times just trying to keep a low profile. I think that that kind of love for what he does is infectious and inspiring to the point that we should all find something that we love that much. Not even the most devoted Springsteen fan would argue that he has changed the music landscape. In almost 40 years of recording and performing, Springsteen hasn't had 1/100 of the effect on music and the world that the Beatles had in 8 years, but rather he has built a career on doing most everything very well. He is a fantastic lyricist, one of the best storytellers ever IMO, an underrated guitarist, and arguably the greatest live performer to ever step foot on a stage. There are a lot of stereotypes about Bruce and many of them are true to some extent, but he is one of those artists that the more you know about him the more there is to appreciate. His albums are pretty great and it is hard to outright recommend one. Mostly b/c I am afraid of choosing one that somebody will hate and then they give up on Bruce. Objectively, most fans will tell you that "Born to Run" is his best album and his masterpiece. However, if you were to do a poll of people's favorite album, I don't think that album would win easily over many of his others. There are strong contingents of fans that will argue for each of these albums being his best: The Wild, the Innocent, and the E Street Shuffle/Born to Run/Darkness on the Edge of Town/The River/Nebraska/Born in the USA/Tunnel of Love. I enjoy listening to his albums and seeing how he weaves stories together around a similar theme. He is notorious for leaving off tons of songs (many of them great songs that become hits for other groups like "Because the Night" for Patti Smith and "Fire" for the Pointer Sisters) b/c they don't fit the theme of his album as he sees it. His albums are undoubtedly great, but at the same time, I don't think that many big Springsteen fans frequently listen to the albums. Even for those that consider him only a few notches below Dylan in the "greatest lyricists of all time" lists, I think that most would agree that his greatest strength is what he can do on stage. For a man that is truly shy in "real life" (and couldn't be more painful to listen to in an interview most of the time), the transformation that occurs when he takes the stage is truly remarkable. He has more stage presence than anybody I have ever seen (and that includes all of the "greats" that have continued touring over the past decade). He is one of the few people that can successfully alternate between the over the top, somewhat cheesy frontman there to electrify a crowd of 60,000 and the quite introspective singer/songwriter than can bring a crowd to silence with just his voice and guitar. I know plenty of people who never really got his appeal before seeing him live and then were "converted" by the show. What he does doesn't connect with everybody (obviously), but it is hard to not at least admire what he can do. He is one of those rare artists that still has enough popular appeal to sell out arenas across the U.S. and stadiums in the northeast and over seas, but also has a hugely devoted fanbase that hangs on his every move. Many of these people being the same fans that would chase him up and down the NJ shore when he was first starting out and playing all the local places. When he announces that he is playing 10 nights at a venue, the question for thousands of fans isn't "which shows are you going to?" but rather "which shows can't you make?" Of course, he cultivates this diehard fanbase by continuing to give it 100% every night and by making every show unique to some extent. I have seen him 9 times (all with the E Street Band and all since 2003) and yet I have seen him play 92 different songs. The last show I saw was the fourth show on that same tour that I had seen, and the second one in that same month and still he played 5 songs that I had never heard him play. Yes, I have a list. There are plenty of bands that change up the setlists to keep fans interested, but few that perform shows on the scale that he does that do it. Here is one of my favorite videos of all time. Some guy in the audience had brought a sign request for "Higher and Higher" by Jackie Wilson. The band used to cover that song back in the early 70s but hadn't played it in more than 30 years (trust me, there is a website database where you can look these things up). He pulls the sign out of the crowd. Tests one or two things and the band launches into it. You can see how he is always aware of things when he is onstage (calling out solos, calling to play in half time, calling out a key change that takes the song to a whole another level). I am sure that isn't the most complicated song to play in the world, but the fact that he would do that in front of crowd of 15,000 and then completely nail it is great to watch. Also, the intense joy on Bruce's face always makes me smile. Once again, I went overboard. I realize the obsession is weird, but then again his music and seeing him live brings me so much joy that I am ok with that. I am pretty tame compared to other fans. Like I said, it is hard to recommend one album. I think that it really depends on what you are looking for in the music but I guess I'd say go with "Born to Run" if you think you can appreciate the naivete of youthful dreams. It is my favorite most of the time. If you are into live shows though, I'd probably most strongly recommend this album: www.amazon.com/Hammersmith-Odeon-London-75-2CD/dp/B000E97X66/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_topIt is the band's first show in Europe and was just released a few years ago. There is a full DVD of the show as well, but it has been blocked on YouTube. Here is Born to Run on another site --> www.dailymotion.com/video/x1yl8_borntorun-hammersmith-odeon_newsPeople who were there say that this show doesn't come close to comparing to the other nights of the stand, but it is quite cool to hear and still very good. This is during the Born to Run tour from 1975 and I think that it is quite eye-opening for people who only think of Bruce as the "Born in the USA guy." This was really before he started tackling more serious subjects in his songs, but the jazzy feel of the songs is quite different from the bombast he would later become known for. The stereotypes are very present: Bruce's raspy voice, the sax (which a lot of ppl. hate), long songs about girls and cars, etc., but this is a view of the band when they really broke through. When they were still raw and hungry and before Bruce became the completely polished performer. Apparently, Joe Strummer was in the audience for this show and it made a huge impact on him and his future shows. One other thing to note is that everybody onstage in this show except for the organ player who died in 2008, is still on stage when Bruce plays today which is quite remarkable for a seven piece band. If anybody ever wants a copy, let me know. I tend to prefer the fire power of the 1978's Darkness on the Edge of Town shows, so if screaming guitars and "runaway train" rock and roll is more your thing I can hook you up with one of those as well or just listen to the Winterland show on Wolfgang's Vault. One of the most legendary shows that circulates among fans --> www.wolfgangsvault.com/bruce-springsteen/concerts/winterland-december-15-1978.htmlIf you prefer depressing, acoustic stuff check out the Nebraska album. Sorry that was so long. You think you got carried away... FOREIGN LANGUAGES Aha, something to disagree about at last! This btw is a hobby horse of mine so please feel free to ignore it if I become boring. You are completely right about China and learning Chinese. It is becoming offered more and more in schools here, but when I was still in college (which was only 3 years ago), there weren't many options for learning Chinese. I have taken years of Spanish and can function in the language and spent a summer living in Germany, so can at least deal with basic German phrases, but on the whole I am not a fan of foreign languages. Mostly b/c it was always something I have struggled with and I tend to not be a fan of such things. I love learning about other cultures, being immersed in them, and have been to a number of European countries. However, even when I am in those places I will only resort to trying to speak the language if I am forced to (apart from the very common phrases like hello, goodbye, thank you which I always say in the proper language). I would much rather come across as the dumb/rude American who only speaks English rather than the idiot who can't speak their language correctly. That's probably the wrong attitude to take, but is true if I am honest with myself. Also, I have almost always come to find that most anybody (at least in major cities) will have a better grasp of English than I will have of their language. Meredith, how do you make those neat boxes around text you wish to reply to? Saves a lot of space! It is probably more work than it is worth, but I will write up how to do it soon.
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Post by duckbiter on May 30, 2011 11:51:06 GMT -5
Ah, but if we don't try to educate them, they'll never wise up! I think some of the Marty vids would still tickle funnybones today with a bit sharper editing. Ppl are more visually adept now. We are well educated in the visual media. In contrast, the Four Yorkshiremen sketch is very wordy. And, SO MUCH of it depends on an understanding of British history, that it's unfair to expect non-Brits to "get it". The joke could be understood if it was translated with insight and understanding to another culture's history and idioms. This joke actually became a sort of MEME before the word was even coined. I recall all my friends trying to outdo each other in their tales of woe and deprivation. Arwel, let's not be hypocrites. Can we truly say WE appreciate American humour? Personally I must say, yes I do. Remember MASH? Listen, I remember AMOS AND ANDY, and I bet there aren't many American members who remember that! I LOVE LUCY, CHEERS, FRIENDS, etc, etc. Part of my very being. My favourite sit-com of all time, and I've seen hundreds, is EVERYBODY LOVES RAYMOND. It's fashionable to knock this series now, but that's probably because it has had too many airings. I just can't envisage it ever being surpassed. duckbiter
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Post by arwelp on May 30, 2011 12:07:48 GMT -5
I have taken years of Spanish and can function in the language and spent a summer living in Germany, so can at least deal with basic German phrases, but on the whole I am not a fan of foreign languages. Mostly b/c it was always something I have struggled with and I tend to not be a fan of such things. I love learning about other cultures, being immersed in them, and have been to a number of European countries. However, even when I am in those places I will only resort to trying to speak the language if I am forced to (apart from the very common phrases like hello, goodbye, thank you which I always say in the proper language). I would much rather come across as the dumb/rude American who only speaks English rather than the idiot who can't speak their language correctly. That's probably the wrong attitude to take, but is true if I am honest with myself. Also, I have almost always come to find that most anybody (at least in major cities) will have a better grasp of English than I will have of their language. In my experience, even if they do speak decent English (and a surprising number of people don't), people will appreciate it if you make an effort to at least try a few phrases in their language - I remember apologising for my "schrecklich Deutsch" to a hotel receptionist in Garmisch-Partenkirchen once, to be told "you speak good German" (life is full of polite lies!), and I was once the only person in a restaurant in Prague who tried to speak Czech rather than German or English, and I think I got noticeably better service. Educationally (back in the 60s and 70s) the first language I was taught was Welsh (not a foreign language for me, I only really started using English once I started school), French for 5 years, and Latin for 2 years. I never thought Latin would be much use, but together with the French, I can usually figure out the sense of written Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, Romanian, and Rumantsch (I was walking in Switzerland once, and surprised myself by being able to read a rabies warning notice in Rumantsch!). I picked up Swiss and Austrian German from numerous holidays over there, and having some knowledge of German, French, and English helps a lot with figuring out written Dutch and Flemish (though the spoken language is quite another matter - though most Dutch people I've met speak better English than the English anyway!).
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Post by arwelp on May 30, 2011 12:22:10 GMT -5
In contrast, the Four Yorkshiremen sketch is very wordy. And, SO MUCH of it depends on an understanding of British history, that it's unfair to expect non-Brits to "get it". The joke could be understood if it was translated with insight and understanding to another culture's history and idioms. Duckbiter, Actually on YouTube I have seen the Four Yorkshiremen sketch performed in Hungarian, and the audience seemed to appreciate the joke! Can we truly say WE appreciate American humour? Personally I must say, yes I do. Remember MASH? Listen, I remember AMOS AND ANDY, and I bet there aren't many American members who remember that! I LOVE LUCY, CHEERS, FRIENDS, etc, etc. Part of my very being. How could anyone forget MASH?!? Do you remember SOAP, which was a little-seen classic of the 70s? Must admit I never did particularly like Lucy, but I think it was the pitch of her voice which set my ears on edge! Used to love Taxi, and the Phil Silvers Show/Bilko. Yes, I think we do appreciate most American humo(u)r, though some doesn't travel as well as others - personally I think a lot of recent comedy movies have been rather infantile, but that may just be my impending senility.
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Post by duckbiter on May 30, 2011 15:19:05 GMT -5
Dammit, HOW COULD I OMIT BILKO!!
The comments on the Four Yorkshiremen video are at least as funny as the original sketch.
And yes you're right, there's a wide spectrum between sophisticated stuff like Frazier and dumbed down tedious pap like Police Academy#infinity. Mind you, what must THEY think of Carry On On the Buses?!
duckbiter
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Post by arwelp on May 30, 2011 16:25:06 GMT -5
Mind you, what must THEY think of Carry On On the Buses?! duckbiter My eldest brother used to love On the Buses. Mind you, he was a bus driver... Have to admit I've never understood why Americans took to Benny Hill so much.
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