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Post by duckbiter on May 21, 2011 8:08:53 GMT -5
I recently posted the following on the subject of Greyson's future.
>>But thinking ahead, so many artists fail on the all important SECOND ALBUM which is much more difficult to get right. If Greyson wants to be successful with this then he'll need time off from touring.
Does he really want to be a 15 year old superstar with security and paparazzi cluttering up his life. The pressure from the record company is short term inflation of the bottom line. That's just a fact.
To avoid burnout the artist has to take a longer view. She needs to fight the Label's short termism. After all it's HER life.<<
Because of his musical skills it is so easy to overlook the fact that HE IS 13 (Are you kitten?). HE CAN'T be expected to make sensible decisions about his future, simply because he hasn't enough experience of life.
Having followed his career from the very beginning, I frankly have almost a paternal concern for his wellbeing. If he were my son I should not allow him to spend these most important years of his life touring in a bus.
He needs a more stable life with the opportunity to make friends with his peers over time. A period of normalcy in his life. The fragmentary relationships he makes while touring are meaningless and superficial.
Please, recall your own teenage years. They are so critical in our development as WHOLE people. Greyson needs space and time to grow into adulthood.
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Post by greysonchancefans on May 21, 2011 11:35:35 GMT -5
Last year around summer 2010 I came across a YouTube that really criticized the industry and Greyson's career in particular.
His basic argument was that NOBODY under 18 should be in the entertainment industry - that is was corrupt and manufactured and dangerous/exploitative... This coming from a 16-17 year old guy that obviously had issues. His main support argument stemmed from support of strong anti child labor rules and regulations...
I think he has since come around but I haven't really followed up. I first came across his rants on the early version of the official Greyson Chance web site. He was actually quite articulate and intelligent but his argument fell on deaf ears pretty much...
I will see if I can dredge up the videos
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Post by duckbiter on May 21, 2011 14:53:50 GMT -5
Cool.
An adult artist will almost always have her own agent, lawyer and accountant to look after her interests.This is just common sense. They earn their professional fees by negotiating an advantageous deal for their client.
In Greyson's case, his age and natural gullibility complicate things. I truly believe that his artistic team have his best interests at heart. You would have to be unspeakably callous not to be won over by his authenticity and almost naive charm and openness.
The people who make the decisions don't know and don't care about Greyson. The corperative structure of the proprietors and investors of the companies who are the ultimate owners of the music are compelled BY LAW to maximize profits. This btw is the tragedy of American Capitalism.
I think Greyson's parents are naive too. And that's meant as a compliment. They've raised three teenagers who seem happy and confident. No small feat! But their very niceness puts them at a disadvantage when dealing with the dirty world of the moneygrabbers. The family is so open to exploitation.
Greyson will ALWAYS have a creative and fulfilling career in music, whether he attains stardom or not. It's simply his vocation.
The honeymoon period is about to end. After August there are some important decisions to be taken. If he hasn't got one already, his own agent is a MUST.
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Post by mapender on May 22, 2011 12:39:57 GMT -5
I think that this conundrum must be particularly difficult for anybody who is close to Greyson. There was some interview with Mrs. Chance where she commented on the fact that while she knew that this kind of life was probably in Greyson's future she "wouldn't have chosen it at this age." The stories of former child stars who suffer once they hit adulthood are too numerous and too horrifying for any decent parent to want to subject their child to that lifestyle and I wouldn't be surprised if the Chances, at least to some degree, wish Greyson was still living a normal life (though I obviously have no idea). However, saying that, I think that you also have to consider the fact that Greyson is 13 and while he certainly shouldn't be solely responsible for making decisions for himself, his opinion as to the direction of his life is very important. Greyson became an overnight sensation in the truest sense of the term, and I am not sure that there is another situation with which to compare his rise to fame. While having the chance to grow up "normally" and be able to make mistakes and go to high school and have all of those common life experiences can be very important in the development of a person, I think that Greyson's family was (un)fortuantely faced with the premature task of having to balance that with other life lessons. Mainly the fact that you've got to take advantage of opportunities presented to you, if you want to live your dream you have to work hard and make sacrifices, and perhaps most importantly, you only live once. I don't think that anybody is under the impression that Greyson was forced into the spotlight. In fact, the impression I get is that he is the one that really wants to be doing this and that his family/friends/community is very supportive if somewhat wary of everything happening to him. Everybody is different and for many, not being able to grow up normally has a very detrimental effect, but for others living with regret at not taking advantage of an opportunity (a major opportunity in Greyson's case) presented to you can be just as bad. I had the chance to grow up "normally," but would I have given that up for the chance to live out my dream - in a heartbeat. Now, if we go ask somebody else who achieved stardom young, their answer might be the complete opposite. The grass is always greener... Only time will tell... (and any other cliche you can think of). As far as the creative direction of his career, the only thing I hope is that Greyson is making the music he wants to make. Whether that be disposable music that will get tons of radio-play and make him millions in a couple of years, music that only speaks to a small segment of the population, or music that will stand the test of time. I certainly have my preferences as to which direction I'd like to see him take in the future and could write a thesis on things he "should do" to achieve what in my opinion would be "greatness," but in the end it is his life and his artistic direction and frankly, what do I know? I can choose to support him or not through the $ I spend on his albums, etc. I know a lot of us here see so much potential in Greyson that we all hope he can avoid the label of teen sensation, but in some respects I think that is going to be inevitable. Greyson and his team at least talk like they are aiming long term, and I hope that is the path that they pursue. I think that appealing across generations and to both genders is incredibly important in long-term success, but at the end of the day the only important thing is that your music speaks to people. As far as Greyson having control over his career, I am incredibly curious as to what Greyson's contract says (I did just graduate from law school... . I am sure those closest to him would be completely willing to stop everything should he one day decide he wants to go back to normal school and quit (or just take a break) from the music industry. However, things aren't that simple when there are legally enforceable contracts and large amounts of money invested.
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Post by duckbiter on May 22, 2011 13:54:00 GMT -5
Meredith
I should by now not be surprised at your understanding and insight. But still I am!
I recall Lisa, almost a year ago, saying that she would allow Greyson to continue only so long as he was happy to do so. Greyson is still positive about it, although he poignantly admits that he is lonely at times. And then rationalises it by saying that he is "living his dream etc".
As an aside here's a video - BILLIONAIRE BIEBER BOY BURNOUT
On the question of whether Greyson was right to grasp the opportunity offered, I'm absolutely sure he was right to do so. That sort of thing happens only once in a lifetime. And we must never forget that music is his vocation not to say the love of his life.
But it's so easy for us to want to push him to early success. THERE'S NO HURRY, quality will tell sooner or later.
Btw congrats on your graduation! I know some good lawyer jokes but that's off topic!
Even ruthless Universal would be wary of litigation against a 13 year old. Their PR Dept would forbid it. So in reality if not in law Greyson and his family can decide his future for themselves. THEY are the right people to do so.
duckbiter
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Post by mapender on May 22, 2011 21:57:09 GMT -5
I agree with you. I think as fans it is human nature for us to want him to reach the greatest of heights right now b/c we believe he deserves that kind of recognition. However, I truly believe that slowly but surely is a better route to take. On some thread I went on a long tangent (as I am often prone to doing ) about how the quality of live performers has dwindled in recent years IMO due to the fact that artists tend to have their 15 minutes of quick fame and then fall off the radar. Bands/Artists hit it big in record time these days and have little time to develop their skills in a less pressured environment than on the stage in front of thousands or on the front cover of Rolling Stone. I am suddenly can't come up with the cliche I am looking for, but something about staying at the top is harder than making it to the top. Elton John just recently made a comment about how he sees the position Lady Gaga is in right now as similar to him in the 1970s. That he was at the top of the game and he had to make sure that he stayed there. Gaga is in that position right now and even I can tell (and I am not a big fan who closely follows her career) that she is worn out and probably for her health should take a break since she just finished a massive tour. However, her new album is out tomorrow, she is booked for the full round of press to promote it, and I am sure will go back on the road again after that. It is almost like she is playing defense to stay at the top b/c that is human nature and good business sense to take advantage of being "hot." We can only hope (no matter what you think of her as a musician) that she doesn't fall down the same path of drugs and self-destruction that Elton was incredibly lucky to survive. You were making a good point about that all-important second (or sometimes third) album that really makes or breaks an artist. I hope that Greyson has the opportunity to find his "voice" and style before he is at the point where he is just trying to stay at the top. Furthermore, I firmly believe that Greyson has the potential to make it purely on his musical talent and if I had my way, I'd hope to see him stick to that path rather than become a corporation himself (a la Bieber, Kiss, etc.). I am not somebody who gets so hung up on musical "integrity" and don't begrudge people who take advantage of interesting opportunities that are presented to them, but things like Bieber having his own nail polish line is just ridiculous to me. Not all music has to be this "oh so serious artistic endeavor," but when you talk about artists who are revered and who touch people across generations there tends to be at least some semblance of seriousness/message to their music. On one hand, it is only music and there are far more important things in the world, but on the other, I have seen the massive effect "an overpaid guitar player" can have on thousands of people across the world and how much some simple songs can touch people's lives. Anyway, another very long post. I've got too much time on my hands today. Thanks for the congrats! Graduated yesterday and guess it is about time I decide what I am going to do with my life.
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Post by duckbiter on May 23, 2011 3:27:44 GMT -5
It has been a cornerstone of American culture, almost unquestioned, that one must "make it" and to the TOP if possible. Greyson's own WOTL assumes this desire. Personally I have found that the very opposite is a better prescription for a contented life.
Certainly Life at the Top is precarious, and it takes a certain type of personality (I would say psychopathology) to truly want it and then fight for it. Chasing fame for its own sake is financially rewarding, but emotionally and spiritually a downer.
You give the example of Bieber nail gloss. The worst scam that Bieber's evil "team" perpetrated was in ads right alongside his YouTube vid. It invited girl fans to send in $10 EACH WEEK to find out if they were dear Justin's "Girlfriend of the Week". Adults mugging children, what next? I wonder if Bieber knew or cared about what was going on in his name. He is only of use in so far as he shows so clearly the path Greyson should NOT be following.
Looking at Greyson, like a CV -
13 years old A naturally gifted and dedicated singer/pianist Has had a year of uniquely invaluable experience performing and producing music with best in the business. Completely at home centre-stage. As an interviewee, an absolute natural.
BUT HE'S 13
Everything SCREAMS OUT to me that Greyson should take advantage of the learning opportunities in LA. It is a world centre of excellence for teaching the performing arts. Gaga herself studied at the Juilliard, NY. If the family prefer Oklahoma to LA, then similar training could be sought there.
Bottom line is - Fame is fickle, not worth chasing.
WHATEVER, Greyson has a secure future in the music/ entertainment world.
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Post by mapender on May 24, 2011 20:22:38 GMT -5
I actually agree with your assessment of what is important in life and understand that as a truth academically, but whether it is due to my age or what has been drilled in to me, I don't aim to "only" be a decent person, hard worker, etc. I want to be the best at whatever I choose to do. So I guess I fall into the stereotype.
On this other fan forum I read, an Irish fan was trying to explain the different outlooks to life as he saw them. I can't remember exactly what he said, but something about how an American sees the proverbial "Mansion on the Hill" and looks at it as something to aspire to while an Irishman sees it as something to ridicule. Don't get me wrong, I am not somebody who thinks that wealth/fame, etc. are anywhere close to the most important or defining parts of life, but I do understand and partly embody the outlook that leads people to seek those things out.
Saying that, though, I don't think that people create a "product" and hope that it only touches/helps/affects (whatever) a few thousand people. I think there is a difference between wanting the music you are creating to touch as many people as possible, and then actively only seeking to be the most famous, richest, etc. artist and doing whatever it takes to reach that status.
I pretty much just wanted to bring up the Elton/Gaga comment because I thought it was an interesting comparison and as dumb as it may be, I am kind of "worried" about how hard she seems to be working.
I do hope that Greyson takes an active interest in his continuing education (music and otherwise) though. Music-wise, I do think that no matter how great he is now, with more classical training he could be incredible. I am not a fan of perfection. I don't mind people who sing flat or off key or hit a wrong note while playing. Those things aren't what I focus on when I find music that touches me. However, there is no denying that the more tools a person has the greater the possibilities. I am not so sure about famous musicians who are mainly guitarists, but if you look to those who play piano most were classically trained at some point (Elton, Gaga, Billy Joel, Alicia Keys, etc.). As far as general education, I think that can be just as important for an artist's music (and obviously more important for a person's life in general) than music training b/c the more facets of life you see, the more complete picture you have and the more tools you have to reach your audience.
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Post by duckbiter on May 25, 2011 9:55:59 GMT -5
I understand perfectly your concern about Gaga. It's a consequence of the asymmetrical nature of the fan/star relationship. You are familiar (from "family") with her life, whilst she knows nothing of your existence. I have an almost proprietorial feeling about Greyson, which he is blind to.
At age 13, EDUCATION must be the priority. Travel abroad was regarded as an essential part of education by the elite. A world tour should accomplish that for Greyson. A wide knowledge of one's own and other cultures is a sine qua non. An understanding of SCIENCE is imo vital to comprehend the modern world. And finally the self confidence to explore and follow WHAT YOU LOVE. He's hardly deficient in THAT.
To compose songs you need passion and understanding. Greyson's own songs, so far, have been mostly about HEARTBREAK. They come from the soul. I'd love to know what the theme of the second album will be. It MUST NOT be about heartbreak.
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Post by grownups4greyson on May 26, 2011 14:21:33 GMT -5
Mapender & Duckbiter. Such GREAT POSTS!. I will try to add to this discussion when I feel better. When I met Lisa in Atlanta I gave her information about "A Minor Consideration". I hope my zeal did not make her uncomfortable, and I hope she and Scott will follow up on the info I gave her. I also hope that you guys will check out their web page & post your thoughts here. From the home page, go to the "contents" page. www.minorcon.org. 1950's child star Paul Peterson is the president of the group, which is run by many former child stars. It sounds like they could do a lot to help guide Greyson & his family. Their services are free, so I hope when Greyson gets back to L.A. that he and his parents will get an opportunity to investigate further. I don't want Greyson to end up feeling like this in forty years: This topic is very important to me because of what Donny & his family went through. So I hope to post more when I'm feeling better. I want to make it very clear that I am not saying anything negative about Greyson's parents. I believe they are supporting Greyson in HIS dream (they are NOT stage parents). I just believe that there is a lot that the Chance family can gain by following up with "A Minor Consideration". I wish I could know for sure that Greyson & his parents had time to check out this information.
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Post by duckbiter on May 27, 2011 7:07:29 GMT -5
grownups4greyson
You certainly came up trumps with your contribution to this debate. What a fascinating website is minorcon.org, and who better in the world to lead it than Paul Petersen.
There is so much vital information here for ANY parents of child artists. Should be compulsory viewing before any serious commitments or contracts appear.
A similar problem exists for sports persons who often face retirement in their early 30s. They have to find something else to do with the rest of their lives. And they are frequently ignorant of anything other than their sport, because of the all consuming dedication needed to attain success. To put it bluntly, they are not the most intelligent of professionals simply because their forte is physical rather than mental. But I believe their AGENTS see it as part of their responsibility to at least make sure that good financial advice is available.
As far as Greyson goes I see a bright future. Good school grades, savvy parents and his own personal qualities point to a LONG TERM successful career.
His PRESENT skills and experience would provide an entree into almost any branch of the music/entertainment world. It would not surprise me at all to see him as a DJ, fronting TV shows, composing songs for others, producing records, acting, directing, comedy, whatever sparks his enthusiasm.
BUT imo the early teens are the time when we are most capable of acquiring new knowledge and skills. It's really a time for LEARNING rather than PERFORMING.
duckbiter
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Post by grownups4greyson on May 27, 2011 23:06:43 GMT -5
Thank you, duckbiter, for your kind words. When I sit here feeling sick & wonder if my words will actually make a difference & help somebody (especially Greyson and his family), it is nice to know that someone so far away values my opinions. I thank you for your intelligent contributions. And I thank Merideth and DJ Tiny for making this such an INCREDIBLE board. This board has such great quality that it seems even Greyson's "management" has noticed. I believe our numbers will grow over the years as Greyson's fan base grows.
RE: A Minor Consideraation. I hope Greyson and his family take notice. Then, I hope they will use Greyson's star-power and "connections" to pass on the information to Cody, Miranda, Justin, and others. Another Harry Potter magic wand thing I would like to do is meet Justin Bieber's mother or Grandfather and pass this information on to them. Justin is so big that I fear for his future well being when the inevitable roller-coaster valley hits.
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Post by grownups4greyson on May 28, 2011 9:24:11 GMT -5
As an aside here's a video - BILLIONAIRE BIEBER BOY BURNOUT I don't think he has "Burnout" Here is another clip. At first he is smiling, even when they grab him. But then there is a look of pain, followed by anger. It appears someone may have actually hurt him. Picture overexcited girls screaming & clawing to hold on to his arm or hand. Someone with long fingernails digging into your hand or arm certainly does not feel good. Many stars have been hurt in this manner before, to the point that it draws blood. It can be downright dangerous. Just look at some of the other vids out there. He has been hit in the head by objects thrown at him by people. You can't blame him for being upset at being treated like a piece of meat.
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Post by duckbiter on May 28, 2011 18:11:17 GMT -5
Sorry but I disagree, somewhat.
My first thought was - a teenager with a net worth of $65 million must expect to experience some adversity if he can't please ALL of the punters ALL of the time. There is an undercurrent of DISLIKE amongst his fans. Witness the throwing of a full bottle of water at his head.
It is inconceivable that Greyson would receive such treatment. As he says ad nauseam, he respects and loves his fans. The fans are young but certainly not stupid. Over the past year I have become friendly with a number of them. All girls aged about 13. THEY CORRECT ME WHEN MY COMMENTS ARE WRONG. THEY have MY respect. They are passionate in their love for Greyson and I just cannot dismiss this as merely a passing phase.
grownups4greyson, you are dead right when you express concern about Justin Bieber. Imo he will become the archetypical child star victim of the 21st century. I am ignorant of his predicament, but I just cannot see a happy ending on the horizon. Your concern for him is something I can only admire. It reminded me to not forget my own fundamental belief (I'm an atheist) in the importance of COMPASSION.
On a personal note, I am bewildered why I spend so much time worrying about the future of a gifted rich boy who lives on the other side of the world from me. There are millions of children who need simple basic things to have a decent life.
But Greyson has something magical. I just don't know what it is.
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Post by grownups4greyson on May 31, 2011 15:21:28 GMT -5
Another thought on "The Next Five Years".
As soon as possible, I hope that Greyson will form his own Music Publishing Company. He is already under contract now, and I'd be pleasantly surprised if he maintains the publishing rights to his songs. I would expect that the label probably has these rights at the moment. But Greyson needs to be ready when the contract expires. This is not about the recordings, but about ownership of the songs he writes & records. Here are a couple of videos to make my point.
Paul McCartney discusses how The Beatles were "managed" out of their song rights early in their careers.
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